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256 posts
msg #72749
Ignore FuriousThug
3/15/2009 6:33:26 PM

GM is GM. It's not's a business. It's not a's a company.

Sure, it's a an iconic business...but it's still a business. And businesses that don't run effectively or change with the times, don't survive. To assume that the "American way of life" would somehow be compromised if GM failed is not only showing an actual lack of faith in America the nation and people, but also a misguided idolatry for what's no more than a business entity.


76 posts
msg #72751
Ignore dforant1
3/15/2009 7:26:58 PM

The Auto Industry, the railroad and the airline industry has been on life support systems for years now. Actually the Auto Industry wasn't doing so bad till Washington and certain State Houses started telling them what type of gas they had to use. Regulation, not deregulation has screwed things up to a point where certain businesses must fail completely and new ones will rise and take their place. And please get over US domination. It is now a New World Order. We must compete. What parent in their right mind wants their kid to make shoes in a factory. Unions are nothing but pacifiers when what is really needed is the milk.

891 posts
msg #72753
Ignore marine2
3/16/2009 12:02:27 AM

Isn't it interesting that when GM, Ford, & Chrysler were doing well you didn't see much naysayers throwing dirt on them. The unions were admired, they were good in protecting their people and it bled over to many non union workers as well. Our country was purring along giving the lower class people a chance to move up to middle class status. Our schools and colleges flourished giving the young minds of our country quality teachers and professors that loved their jobs and prided in them.

Now, when our country has discovered bad people leading financial institutions ruining our market place, destroying hard working U.S. citizens of our country their hard earned savings, taking down our once great American companies we have people that want those same great companies that propelled our country to greatness for many years to vanish, melt away and throw millions of people out of work, and further destroy retiree pensions and send the market downward once again.

I think lowering our countrys standard of living might be what the world wants It actually might be what people in our own country wants. It will make us equal to everyone else. If that makes us more competitive this will certainly do it.

If GM were to file for Chapter 11, it would create a "do not buy" situation for their existing vehicles. Domino effect you want, domino effect you get. Suppliers go down, causing extreme hardships to Ford and Chrysler, making them vulnerable to bankrupsy, dealerships go under, materials companies drastically effected, people lose jobs by numbers that are staggering, housing takes another tumble, the market falls hard again whereby losing more peoples lifes savings, hospitals must lay off or fire people, fire depts, police depts, are extremely affected, more commercial businesses go under, more deflation sets in to which creates its own domino effect. So many people will be on the governments payroll for unemployment benefits, food stamps. medical care and pension payments that you the tax payer will be paying through the noses. Not sure if China will continue loaning us more money but I know some country will have to. . Maybe, China already owns us and we just don't know it yet?

Restructuring in a unique way without calling it a Chapter 11 (so as not to create the "do not buy" syndrome) can and will happen as you are seeing take place now. If replacing the existing leadership at GM and their union, streamlining their product line, making sure they have the right vehicles for the future. Making sure GM's quality is comparable to the foreign makers vehicles. Getting suppliers, dealerships, materials companies, and unions benefits and wages more in line with reality. To all share in lowering the cost of the product then we shall see a resurgence in product viability, and strength. Thus giving the investor the confidence to put money on them again. Maybe, GM can be a model for foreign countries to aspire to. Oh, how about more help from the government in incentives for our American car companies and incentives for the consumers in America when it comes to buying an American product. Revising the worlds Fair Trade policies and practices will help tremendously too.

724 posts
msg #72754
Ignore 13th_floor
3/16/2009 12:31:41 AM

- Ignore FuriousThug 3/15/2009 6:33:26 PM

GM is GM. It's not's a business. It's not a's a company.

Sure, it's a an iconic business...but it's still a business. And businesses that don't run effectively or change with the times, don't survive. To assume that the "American way of life" would somehow be compromised if GM failed is not only showing an actual lack of faith in America the nation and people, but also a misguided idolatry for what's no more than a business entity

Couldn't of said it better,FT!

891 posts
msg #72821
Ignore marine2
3/16/2009 4:36:32 PM

Well, if GM goes away, let's see what happens. Most of you in this thread seems to want them to go away and fighting the thought is for naught. No one can ever tell the true future that lies ahead for our country, we just hope, growing new companies, new ways to being competitive with our rival countries and recreating ourselves to once again be admired and respected throughout the world. That should be our goal.

Praying for positive solutions can not hurt us. May you all find some good in our world and make a difference.

76 posts
msg #72827
Ignore dforant1
3/16/2009 7:11:46 PM

I was never a Union person. Always self employed. My Mom and Dad were and I saw the way Unions depressed wages through the years of watching them. Not to mention the outright graft part. Maybe Unions were necessary when the barges brought over the Europeans for Labor but certainly not now. If they only set aside that Union Dues for 50 years they would have had a nice retirement. Side Note: there are now more Government employed than in the Private Sector. Socialism is here. the USA isn't the only Big Dog in the yard now. Europe and Asia are making noise and we're making it possible for them.

40 posts
msg #72830
Ignore wcurtis
3/17/2009 12:04:46 AM

Union's worked to DEPRESSED WAGES ????? What planet did you and your folks live on? Unions have upgraded
the wages of workers, and set rules that huge corporations had to follow if they wanted to work other human beings !
Management at the very top level don't mind a union in their plant. Unions guarantee wage rates for the next few years, and
this allows the real management ( not some little tin god stupid-visor on the shop floor ) the opportunity bid contracts that come right to the best price. Which brings in more business and the company & union each can grow. It's a win win !
Another plus for the company is that the union is a built in police force to expose unqualified management personal that are
suck'n up lot's of profit dollars every time they take a pay check out the front gate. Even non-union workers enjoy higher wages because some union raised the playing field. And these non-union workers even spent their wages at your place ! Which helped YOU along the way, the next time you meet a union worker you should shake their hand and say " Thanks".
But, you probably will skip that as you drive away in you little rice burner. I don't belong to a union, but I can see and read.

256 posts
msg #72831
Ignore FuriousThug
3/17/2009 1:21:49 AM

I think we have two entirely different conversations going on...
Unions have of course benefited and protected generations of the workforce (god forbid we call it "socialism" as people seem to think that something established for the common good is somehow evil). Unions were a necessary remedy against exploitation.

And on the other side is GM/business interest who, frankly, thrive on exploitation...'cuz, again, GM's not a's a goal...make money. Marketing humanizes a business...don't be fooled.

So it's people vs. business they need each other?

891 posts
msg #72832
Ignore marine2
3/17/2009 2:26:56 AM

Unions do have a place in business as long as they know their place. Yes, unions can be good watch dogs over the health of the worker. The unions were mainly formed in their beginning for better health standards in their work place. Progressing to wages, then medical care and dental care. It was a wonderful thing for a family to know they could go to a doctor, hospital, & other medical facilities without worrying about how to pay for it. This process of helping workers in business flowed over to most businesses in our country. This is one of the reasons why we live longer.

With no controls over medical pricing this wonderful benefit soon came under great stress. Our Amernican car companies pleaded many times with Clintons and Bushes people to help slow the runaway healthcare costs down. They were ignored. Those costs forced our American car companies to tack some of those higher medical costs onto the car and onto the worker themselves. Salary workers at GM and Ford took more the brunt than the union workers. Now however, the union has been giving much more now than in the past. Ignorance from our two past Presidens concerning these runaway healthcare costs surely hurt GM and Ford. This problem is one of many issues that have brought those two icons down to the level you are seeing them.

Like I said earlier, unions do thave their place in business as long as they know their limits before the unions hinder or maime the strength in their companies they are working for. Unions DO NOT run the company they are there as a service for the worker. It's when the unions think they are running the company is when that company deteriotes from within. Most of your great empires, and companies that once flourished but then went into failure was due to their own peoples misguided notions and greed. A companies people wanting more and more and more sure doesnt give you the warm and fuzzies that, that comapny will remain financially solid. .

Unions were good for the company but they got a little out of hand due to their own greedy wishes. Job Banks for one was a ridiculous treat for the layed off hourly worker. The union did not want to lose headcount so this Job Banks was formed to remedy that. Salary workers didnt get this Job Banks treat. Only the hourly people (union) got it. The American auto union leaders also knew exactly what plant or plants to threaten shut down if their demands werent met. Call it black mail or call it threats it sure worked to their advantage in gettng what they wanted. The American auto execs needed to figure out how to combat the unions behavior on that issue. Instead, they gave in after cutting a deal with the union (example, let the execs have more stock options, wage hikes and management will give in to the unions demands) they thought win win for both sides but what was being created was the union taking over the company. That kind of atmosphere in any company is a recipe for disaster. That created an over bloated pricing on their vehicles and gave the advantage to their foreign competitors.

The unions again I say, are not entirely at fault here, They are just one of the problem areas that needs to be tweeked to make both GM and Ford solvent and competitive again. Let's hope they find a way out of their messes.

788 posts
msg #72864
Ignore miketranz
3/17/2009 4:38:25 PM

Who's buying this sh - -???

StockFetcher Forums · General Discussion · 7 reasons for market rally...<< 1 2 3 4 >>Post Follow-up

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